Comments on: The Color That Cannot Be Captured http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/ ...so google can index my head. Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:12:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Tea Leaves - Boo Too! http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-167307 Tea Leaves - Boo Too! Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:53:07 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-167307 [...] …And on the other side of the block is one of the better Halloween displays, complete with tombstone lit in that particular color that cannot be captured. [...] [...] …And on the other side of the block is one of the better Halloween displays, complete with tombstone lit in that particular color that cannot be captured. [...]

]]> By: Jeff Sickel http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-165216 Jeff Sickel Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:25:07 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-165216 I've got a Sigma SD14 and noticed an odd thing in the same vein when I shot petunias on a bright day as a drive by (literally, from the passenger side of a car w/o much time to set up the shot). At first the flowers looked like they just jumped out more than it should have--until I walked passed another set of petunias on a bright sunny day and realized that the image captured much of the tone that I usually missed on other digital cameras. Granted the image isn't that great, but I could post it as a comparison if people want. I tend to only shoot RAW with the SD14. Even so, I've found that when converting to TIFF/JPEG I need to be careful about the output profiles. Many tools (Aperture and Light Room included) can too easily let you dump out a profile that just washes out the image--aka, watch out for that default setting to sRGB. I’ve got a Sigma SD14 and noticed an odd thing in the same vein when I shot petunias on a bright day as a drive by (literally, from the passenger side of a car w/o much time to set up the shot). At first the flowers looked like they just jumped out more than it should have–until I walked passed another set of petunias on a bright sunny day and realized that the image captured much of the tone that I usually missed on other digital cameras. Granted the image isn’t that great, but I could post it as a comparison if people want.

I tend to only shoot RAW with the SD14. Even so, I’ve found that when converting to TIFF/JPEG I need to be careful about the output profiles. Many tools (Aperture and Light Room included) can too easily let you dump out a profile that just washes out the image–aka, watch out for that default setting to sRGB.

]]> By: Chris Hanson http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162532 Chris Hanson Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:09:33 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162532 I believe your need a CCD that can register <a href="http://www.negativland.com/squant/index.html">squant</a> as well as the SquantView™ plug-in to properly handle that color. I believe your need a CCD that can register squant as well as the SquantView™ plug-in to properly handle that color.

]]> By: Jacob Rus http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162490 Jacob Rus Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:10:37 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162490 It turns out that most of the data is indeed within the Adobe RGB gamut this image is saved in. Here's what I was able to do[1] tweaking the L*a*b* curves in Photoshop (actually mostly the a* curve, with a bit of correction of b* to maintain hue. I brought it down so that things mostly fit in the gamut of my 12" powerbook, which is very limited, so you should be able to see detail (i.e. varied chroma+lightness) fairly well on a wider-gamut display. Shows, as Eric says, the power of the curves tool in "Lab" color mode. And I'll second the recommendation for Margulis’s book. Even though some of the explanations are a bit suspect (dare I say wrong?), for the most part, it has good practical advice (at least the chapters I skimmed in a bookstore one day :). [1]: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/bbum-edit/magenta-flower-edit.jpg The image is licensed as CC-BY-NC-ND, so this is technically outside the license and I'll be happy to take the edited image down right away if you like. Edit: apparently your spam filter doesn't like links. :/ It turns out that most of the data is indeed within the Adobe RGB gamut this image is saved in. Here’s what I was able to do[1] tweaking the L*a*b* curves in Photoshop (actually mostly the a* curve, with a bit of correction of b* to maintain hue.

I brought it down so that things mostly fit in the gamut of my 12″ powerbook, which is very limited, so you should be able to see detail (i.e. varied chroma+lightness) fairly well on a wider-gamut display. Shows, as Eric says, the power of the curves tool in “Lab” color mode. And I’ll second the recommendation for Margulis’s book. Even though some of the explanations are a bit suspect (dare I say wrong?), for the most part, it has good practical advice (at least the chapters I skimmed in a bookstore one day :) .

[1]: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/bbum-edit/magenta-flower-edit.jpg

The image is licensed as CC-BY-NC-ND, so this is technically outside the license and I’ll be happy to take the edited image down right away if you like.

Edit: apparently your spam filter doesn’t like links. :/

]]> By: eric soroos http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162473 eric soroos Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:11:17 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162473 It's out of gamut, and possibly out of the colors that are representable by an RGB color space. You're asking for Bright, Saturated Red (magenta really), and once you get enough saturation, you don't have enough brightness. You simply can't get saturation and brightness in an rgb space since as you get to full brightness, you go to white. The solution is the LAB color space, which can do things with non-representable colors and then keep the rendering intent as the color is mapped onto a display space. That colorspace uses Lightness and two color axes, blue/yellow and magenta/green, so you can specify an intensly bright, intensely magenta color. See the book "The LAB Colorspace" by Dan Marguiles for as much detail as you could possibly want. It’s out of gamut, and possibly out of the colors that are representable by an RGB color space.

You’re asking for Bright, Saturated Red (magenta really), and once you get enough saturation, you don’t have enough brightness. You simply can’t get saturation and brightness in an rgb space since as you get to full brightness, you go to white.

The solution is the LAB color space, which can do things with non-representable colors and then keep the rendering intent as the color is mapped onto a display space. That colorspace uses Lightness and two color axes, blue/yellow and magenta/green, so you can specify an intensly bright, intensely magenta color. See the book “The LAB Colorspace” by Dan Marguiles for as much detail as you could possibly want.

]]> By: wobmia » Blog Archiv » The Color That Cannot Be Captured http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162455 wobmia » Blog Archiv » The Color That Cannot Be Captured Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:19:06 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162455 [...] the full story here Der Beitrag wurde am Sunday, den 21. October 2007 um 20:27 Uhr veröffentlicht und wurde [...] [...] the full story here Der Beitrag wurde am Sunday, den 21. October 2007 um 20:27 Uhr veröffentlicht und wurde [...]

]]> By: n[ate]vw http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162437 n[ate]vw Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:43:32 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162437 Edge of the gamut? Rats, I was hoping it was evidence for tetrachromacy! Edge of the gamut? Rats, I was hoping it was evidence for tetrachromacy!

]]> By: Jacob Rus http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162421 Jacob Rus Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:19:22 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162421 Actually, looking at that picture in Camino, which does not know how to do any kind of color management, I'd say that the detail in the top image is okay. It looks like it's mostly getting blown out when converted from Adobe RGB to your monitor's color space. So with a wider-gamut display you might be fine here. Actually, looking at that picture in Camino, which does not know how to do any kind of color management, I’d say that the detail in the top image is okay. It looks like it’s mostly getting blown out when converted from Adobe RGB to your monitor’s color space. So with a wider-gamut display you might be fine here.

]]> By: Jacob Rus http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162416 Jacob Rus Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:11:19 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162416 It's also quite possible that the color is within the gamut of your camera, but outside the gamut you are saving to in JPEG. Try to see what the detail is like if you convert the RAW image to ProPhoto RGB (by the numbers; if you look at it on screen it'll convert to your screen gamut and still be blown out), a wider RGB gamut specifically for this sort of thing. It’s also quite possible that the color is within the gamut of your camera, but outside the gamut you are saving to in JPEG. Try to see what the detail is like if you convert the RAW image to ProPhoto RGB (by the numbers; if you look at it on screen it’ll convert to your screen gamut and still be blown out), a wider RGB gamut specifically for this sort of thing.

]]> By: Gary Martin http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/comment-page-1/#comment-162397 Gary Martin Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:22:19 +0000 http://www.friday.com/bbum/2007/10/21/the-color-that-cannot-be-captured/#comment-162397 I can confirm this effect with a Nikon (D40X). The flower has a really vivid deep red/purple – perhaps an almost luminescent burgundy – and the saturation when it's in direct sunlight it quite startling. Tried a number of times to capture the image, but I just couldn't get it right. Will have to wait until next year to try again. I can confirm this effect with a Nikon (D40X). The flower has a really vivid deep red/purple – perhaps an almost luminescent burgundy – and the saturation when it’s in direct sunlight it quite startling. Tried a number of times to capture the image, but I just couldn’t get it right. Will have to wait until next year to try again.

]]>